uuuugh.

[rocknload]

It sort of bothers me, in discussions of rape—okay, obviously a lot bothers me in most discussions of rape. But, yeah, it bothers me how much real estate is devoted to the discussion about how men can be victimized, too. And not just about the fact that they can be raped, but also about how they might've been really drunk, too, how people sometimes hold them to different standards, how girls can lie after the fact to set them up, and on and on ad nauseum. Sometimes it's relevant, but man, sometimes I really wonder if people forget that the overwhelming majority of rapists are men who won't be prosecuted for it and most of those guys rape women who don't go on to lie about it.

Or maybe I'm being a bitch.

Comments

[gaulish.livejournal.com]

Not really, it's true. There's more male rapists than women.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I know that, it's just that I get seriously resentful when people devote so much time and energy talking about men's rights in rape discussions, when sometimes like one in three women are going to be raped in their life. That's where I'm wondering if I'm being the bitch, here.

[curseangel.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're being a bitch. I get bothered by the same thing a lot. :\

I mean, I could go into why I think people do it, but then I'd be being a bitch, and probably get accused of Crazy Feminism, lol.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I'm really starting to get Crazy Feminist Ideas when it comes to rape, myself. Maybe it's rage from seeing all these rape discussions sidetracked by ... I DON'T EVEN KNOW? The discussion post at sf_drama just makes me angry, I don't even want to freaking read the thing.

[shati.livejournal.com]

If you are, so am I. *shrug*

I also hate it when discussions that start off being about rape turn into discussions that are 90% about the problem of false rape accusations, and maybe 10% about the problem of...rape.

[unicorn]

YES.

[maxiboom.livejournal.com]

Also yes.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I mean, SURE, IT IS A HUGE PROBLEM, STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT ... how many will be falsely accused of rape sometime in their lives? Oh, right, not that many. AUGH.

Plus, being falsely accused of rape is awful, I'm sure, and when people bring it up they usually hedge it with, "And I know it's not as bad as being raped!" but bringing it into the discussion at all kind of implies COMPARISON. Like, "Oh, you women have to live with the fear of rape? Well - AND THIS IS NOT AS BAD, I KNOW - us men have to worry about being falsely accused of rape! See!" It just does not seem very sincere to me.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

If being concerned with the very serious problems that are not properly addressed makes you a bitch, then yes. But only then.

Fact: Only 2% of reported rapes are false reports.
Also Fact: 2% of every other type of crime that is reported are false reports.
There is no such thing as a serious issue with false reports of rape. No matter how much some newspaper might make out of a report that fell into that 2%.

And the final fact of all: If she said no, it's rape. You were drunk? Well then, you were a drunk rapist.

[secret-hotel.livejournal.com]

THIS.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

YEAH. I mean, it'd be like, hell, any discussion of the dangers of house fires turning into a huge debate about how frequently people torch their own homes for the insurance. In that debate it would be a very WTF turn to take, so either my analogy is broken or rape discussions in general are INTENSELY WTF.

[eskanto]

agreed.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

They are INTENSELY WTF.
...I like the analogy.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

They are TWILIGHT ZONE DISCUSSIONS, because seriously, like half that crap wouldn't come up in other similar debates. Especially other debates having to do with assault.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Exactly. If it's not relevant when discussing similar serious social issues, just how does it become relevant when discussing rape? ...Oh, right, it's still irrelevant! Some people apparently just don't want to have to deal with the fact that their desires do not equal other people's desires and forcing those desires on someone else is wrong, regardless of situation.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I think people don't want to deal with the fact that MEN DO THIS TO WOMEN. Seriously, men can whine about this crap, but how much of their life does this TERRIFYING POSSIBILITY actually occupy them? I can't think of a single woman I know who hasn't really thought about all the rape What-Ifs, because like I said! It's a very real possibility.

[elspeth-vimes.livejournal.com]

Yeah that too. OH BUT IT CAN HAPPEN TO MEN TOO, SO THE FACT THAT A LOT OF WOMEN GET THEIR LIVES DESTROYED BY IT AND MOST LIVE IN FEAR OF IT ISN'T REALLY A BIG DEAL. Except that taking a measure of a person's freedom is always a big deal, and that's what rapists and the threat of being raped does.

[thelittlebudgie.livejournal.com]

If you're a bitch, I'm a bitch too. It's deflecting, plain and simple, and it happens with every sort of "controversial" discussion--if you discuss welfare, the "welfare queen" and the poor, suffering preson who is too noble to apply for welfare (usually the commenter) come up; if you discuss racism, Oprah and poor white people (on of whom is usually the commenter) come up; and if you discuss rape, people insist on talking about how bad it is for me.

Most everyone knows that already. They're not imparting any great wisdom. It's just deflecting from the groups that are suffering the most from it, because Lord knows those middle class white men can't go without being acknowledged for a post or two.

[thelittlebudgie.livejournal.com]

Erm, how bad it is for men. Most people don't insist on talking about how bad rape is for me. :P

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

It's such an irrelevant PSA. WOMEN AREN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT SUFFER, DID YOU KNOW THAT? I HAD TO MAKE SURE YOU DIDN'T FORGET. YOU DIDN'T FORGET, DID YOU?

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I feel that way about a lot of threads, over there. This one is kind of irking me a whole lot, because it's like they are BEING SO REASONABLE BUT NO, and auuuuuuuugh. I commented once to agree with someone that the whole topic was a strawman and then promised myself I wouldn't get involved anywhere, because, man.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I see your forever thread. It looks fun.

Seriously, though, I don't even know why we need to ask the question of WHAT IF THEY WERE EXACTLY THE SAME AMOUNT OF DRUNK? WHAT THEN? How did that even come about, man.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

I think someone said something along those lines in a previous post on the topic: WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS? SEEING THE VERY LIMIT OF HOW FAR YOU CAN POSSIBLY GO WITHOUT IT BEING RAPE?

[pretzelcoatl.livejournal.com]

I never saw the original post which spawned the debate question, but it's such a poorly phrased, loaded question.

[rocknload.livejournal.com]

The original post was about Seth Rogen being a rapist in some godawful movie that's coming out. The debate post ... I pretty much hate everything about it.